Close Please enter your Username and Password
Reset Password
If you've forgotten your password, you can enter your email address below. An email will then be sent with a link to set up a new password.
Cancel
Reset Link Sent
Password reset link sent to
Check your email and enter the confirmation code:
Don't see the email?
  • Resend Confirmation Link
  • Start Over
Close
If you have any questions, please contact Customer Service

infinitepoetess 54F
6428 posts
7/3/2020 6:17 am
Trusting Within BDSM - A Baggage Memo PART I



This is a repost because I have realized that it still holds so true on both sides of the fence. Although it is written by the perspective of a Dom, it applies. This piece is extraordinarily important if you seek t/o have a relationship again. I am interested t/o see your responses.
Take a moment and read...

The Butcher's Bill
credit given PhantDom

"What if someone has trust issues that go far and deep?"
In my past experiences, the trust issue has always been one of the most common -- and most difficult -- dynamics t/o grapple with. I think the reasons f/or this are obvious-- submissives by their very nature seek t/o hand over control and autonomy, and in seeking that paradigm place themselves at the mercy of Dominants that may be inept, unlearned, incapable, or outright devious. And of course there are many Dominants that are honest, committed, learned, loving and dedicated.

The Butcher's Bill is somewhat the equivalent of some ones baggage -- everyone has baggage, even one fresh out of a relationships brings some preconceptions and experiences. But the butcher's bill is slightly different from baggage in that they may " P/ay for it "...but the payer didn't enjoy the stea/k

Since I'm a Dominant, my experiences with the butcher's bill is from that perspective, and I do not suppose the reverse is not true-- wherein a submissive pays the butcher's bill of the Dom;. This doesn't mean I am not liable t/o have my own butcher's bill , but let m/e state I do, and now I try t/o be conscious of it, and while I certainly have some baggage, I do my best t/o never let my girl p/ay for something that belongs t/o someone else. So since I can only speak cogently from that aspect, I will proceed from that perspective, appreciating any comments from the reverse side of the fence.
+
Here's an overview, generalized and fictional:
We have a submissive that was poorly treated in a previous relationship, or had a traumatic experience, or has never had anyone come up the standard of trust she required feel secure in exploring the relationship. In her history she's been taken to the cleaners , abused, threatened, and generally mishandled, maybe even criminally so. In many instances, the person in her next relationship has found her vulnerabilities, exploited them, and left her stranded in a turbulent ocean of mistrust, anger, and heartache.

In each instance, she herself has made some conscious choice to be with each person, so now her self-confidence is in tatters and her perception of her judging abilities is deeply in question.

This overview seems to me to be the common-denominator of trust fears in the Community. Right out of the gate it comes with it's own feedback loop that's hard to break-- the idea that an individual cannot escape the fact that they choose a person, the person seems to have all the qualities needed (or comes close), but then the evil seeps and once again their heart lies gutted and pulsing on the bleak landscape's hearth. And so the person picks up their heart and tries again, now even more embittered than before, and now that higher level of bitterness or anger leads t/o a choice of a person that seems t/o have all the qualities needed... etc.

The next plateau generally seems t/o be the requirement t/o have any trust that is proffered validated and tested time and time again. A simplistic example: ""M/y last Dominant yelled at me, and i can't stand being yelled at."" And so the present Dominant takes this into consideration and even when angry, doesn't just yell. But the submissive -- admittedly has trust issues-- doesn't trust that he won't yell -- and so she tests the theory: Will he yell? What level do i have to go to prove it and refusal of trust is validated? Push push push push push-- finally, as a fallible human, he yells at her. And so her theory is ""validated"" -- , he'll yell. And her inability t/o trust is once again ""proven"", and so she doesn't trust. This process easily multiplies itself across a variety of smaller trust-tests, and while none of them alone are the only cause themselves, it might be enough to deconstruct the relationship, enough of them put together does.

(Side note: One can/should expect a hundred % compliance on a hard limit, so let's not misunderstand this and reply, ""Well what about if she didn't want be attacked?"" There's degrees in all things, and in this overview of trust, the degree is clearly not behavior that is purposely devious or destructive, but more in that gray area of human strengths and weaknesses.)

Somewhere along the comes a Dominant is strong and honest, and willing guide her out of this maze, but there's this bundle of feedback loops they both must contend with. And it boils down this:
How to resolve this challenge of trust? Here are my thoughts on that 64k question:
First, no one is a mind reader. Intimate trust cannot be even attempted without communication, and if you're comfortable enough to speak with someone about any personal issues at all, then broaching the subject of why you do or do not trust is a must. But what if communication is the first roadblock, that whenever you do communicate, you feel you are being dismissed or ignored? There is no reason the Dominant can't bring up the subject him or her self. In fact, such conversations should be evoked early on in the proceedings, and given the proclivities towards power exchange; they should be de rigueur within the lifestyle. If one is not bringing it up, the other should.

Second, there's no law saying you must dive into the deepest, darkest part of the pool right out of the gate. It's perfectly legitimate to sit around the pool and watch for awhile, to talk to others that have been in that pool, and to take it slowly upon entering the pool. As one shows such patience, so too should patience be shown to that person.

Third, tomorrow's choice isn't yesterday's mistake. The problem with feedback loops is they are... well, they are feedback loops! They gain their power from the result they expel. There is only one way to end a feedback loop, and that's t/o consciously decide to break it. Is there risk involved? Yes, of course there is! Might you get hurt again? Yes. It's possible you might get hurt again.
But ask yourself this-- aren't you getting hurt by not trusting and not risking anyway? If your trust issues are insurmountable (and I assert that they are insurmountable only by choice), then you've condemned yourself to that feedback loop, and a life of misery. The fact is, though it takes deep resolve and broad courage, you can choose to face your fears and conquer them. From Hamlet's soliloquy:
"Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?"

To sum up, this morning I had a out-of-left-field thought about the doctor I had as a c/hi/ld. He spoke with a thick Austrian accent, and he had faded blue numbers along his forearm. I asked him what those numbers were, and he smiled and told it was his secret code for a club he belonged t/o. T/hen later, as an adult, I ran into him and we chatted. I reminded him of his comment and that led to his telling me about his experiences as a in a Nazi concentration camp. After hearing about the horrors he survived, if any person should never trust another human being, it was this man (and some million others like him). But he wasn't bitter. He turned his misfortunes into the medical profession; specializing in (he made house calls!). He was a good, loving, and jovial. How could someone saw such incredible evil, someone was beaten and numbered like cattle, someone who himself stood on platform outside a gas chamber and was spared because of some mechanical failure in the door mechanism; on that particular sunny spring morning, who watched his family be murdered one by one -- his mother, his father, sisters, and a brother-- all gone... how could this person ever trust any human being again? So I asked him that very question:
"I had to. Otherwise, the evil and the injustice would have won."

Butcher Bill paid in full...


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:18 am

hmmmm? Give me your responses please


aliljaded 53F
8847 posts
7/3/2020 6:26 am

I loved this post the first time you posted it. I especially love the ending There are fewer and fewer Men like the doctor living amongst us. What we learn from them is Priceless.

"Men need to hunt. She obviously understands this. She’s offering herself as prey. Not easy prey. But willing.”


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:31 am

    Quoting aliljaded:
    I loved this post the first time you posted it. I especially love the ending There are fewer and fewer Men like the doctor living amongst us. What we learn from them is Priceless.
I do especially love the ending too, so profound. I meet people now with feedback loops and realize you cannot see the loop while in it. The forest for the trees kind of thing. It is so very destructive to D/s


TheScribe1 63M

7/3/2020 7:11 am

This resonates deeply. I was approached by a friend many moons ago to introduce them to the Life. They had known of My involvement, and wanted to become part of it. I took them through the steps as a Dominant they should try to follow (it was in here actually, and I schooled them on Old School doctrine) and left them to find Their own way.
A few months later, at a gathering, this person approached Me and said they had dropped out of the Life because, in their words, "All the fucking women in there are damaged."
It took Me aback, and yet, when I thought about it over the coming months I began to see what they meant. The proliferation of girls displaying this classic feedback loop was becoming endemic, and it was Us Dominants that were causing it. Kudos for posting this, it should be essential reading in here xx

My Words Are A way Into Your Mind...Be brave And let Me In.


drmgirl622 68F  
25884 posts
7/3/2020 7:19 am

I see this in terms of survival and the drive to excel in life. The tenacity to experience the worst and fight to the top to become a deep, introspective soul.


maletramp 64M
2092 posts
7/3/2020 7:35 am

I'm noticing a simple common thread in many of the problems or tales I've been reading lately. There's a CEO who is picking stocks to buy using a scrabble bag. Whatever letters come out he finds a stock that matches it and then he buys the stock. So, if he pulls out an "A" and a "B" he would say either AB (for AllianceBernstein) or BA for Boeing, then buy. But as random as it appears, he does make a choice of how to arrange the letters. And he makes that choice based on knowledge of the possibilities.

So, imagine all the characteristics, good and bad, that people might have. Trust or Doubt? Love or Hate. Suspicion or Forgiveness. etc. And they all get put in the Scrabble Bag. You pull them out of the bag. But, you don't have to "buy" each trait. YOU (WE) have choice; we can choose to buy the good and reject the bad.

They all really are a CHOICE. In some ways, wisdom is simply the acquisition of the realization that character traits are a choice. And the earlier in life you start making the choices, the wiser we think those people are. And the wisest of the wise know which traits to make their habitual traits. They choose those traits so early in life that they don't know they are a choice any longer, but rather, they "just are" happy, confident, generous, loving, gentle, devoted, loyal, etc.

Those who lead a young life of reactions will develop habits that are the first instinct. The easiest solution to every problem. And those habits typically are a compendium of unattractive traits.

The vast majority of us were not so lucky to know our traits were a choice and which ones to adopt. It is very easy, when you're young, to be attracted to lust or greed or indolence. Hopefully, growing up is the recognition of the traits you want and those you want to rid yourself of, and in that process, you make a more attractive creature by acquiring positive traits and discharging the ugly ones. You choose the traits, daily. And if you choose them often enough (and hopefully you get rewarded on occasion) the choice becomes a habit.

The earlier you make the choice, the more likely that trait might become a habit. Maybe it is possible to be a nazi concentration camp survivor with a wealth of great habitual traits. If you're 9 years old and you witness the atrocities of Auschwitz, your mind is forced to make sense of insanity. The 9-year-old likely understands the evil beliefs that created this prison and likely also realizes how the opposites of such must be heaven.

And the great benefit of this tale is a child acquires habitual character traits of immense value, IF he is wise enough to make the right choices. (OR, the child had great parents that showed them the process of turning good choices into habits.)

I


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 8:26 am

    Quoting TheScribe1:
    This resonates deeply. I was approached by a friend many moons ago to introduce them to the Life. They had known of My involvement, and wanted to become part of it. I took them through the steps as a Dominant they should try to follow (it was in here actually, and I schooled them on Old School doctrine) and left them to find Their own way.
    A few months later, at a gathering, this person approached Me and said they had dropped out of the Life because, in their words, "All the fucking women in there are damaged."
    It took Me aback, and yet, when I thought about it over the coming months I began to see what they meant. The proliferation of girls displaying this classic feedback loop was becoming endemic, and it was Us Dominants that were causing it. Kudos for posting this, it should be essential reading in here xx
Thank you yes yes yes yes!
It applies in that instance as well. Very well illustrated example of its destructive energy abilities


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 8:27 am

    Quoting drmgirl622:
    I see this in terms of survival and the drive to excel in life. The tenacity to experience the worst and fight to the top to become a deep, introspective soul.
It is definitely affective to survival in the dating sphere, but I suggest in all of life as well


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 8:29 am

    Quoting maletramp:
    I'm noticing a simple common thread in many of the problems or tales I've been reading lately. There's a CEO who is picking stocks to buy using a scrabble bag. Whatever letters come out he finds a stock that matches it and then he buys the stock. So, if he pulls out an "A" and a "B" he would say either AB (for AllianceBernstein) or BA for Boeing, then buy. But as random as it appears, he does make a choice of how to arrange the letters. And he makes that choice based on knowledge of the possibilities.

    So, imagine all the characteristics, good and bad, that people might have. Trust or Doubt? Love or Hate. Suspicion or Forgiveness. etc. And they all get put in the Scrabble Bag. You pull them out of the bag. But, you don't have to "buy" each trait. YOU (WE) have choice; we can choose to buy the good and reject the bad.

    They all really are a CHOICE. In some ways, wisdom is simply the acquisition of the realization that character traits are a choice. And the earlier in life you start making the choices, the wiser we think those people are. And the wisest of the wise know which traits to make their habitual traits. They choose those traits so early in life that they don't know they are a choice any longer, but rather, they "just are" happy, confident, generous, loving, gentle, devoted, loyal, etc.

    Those who lead a young life of reactions will develop habits that are the first instinct. The easiest solution to every problem. And those habits typically are a compendium of unattractive traits.

    The vast majority of us were not so lucky to know our traits were a choice and which ones to adopt. It is very easy, when you're young, to be attracted to lust or greed or indolence. Hopefully, growing up is the recognition of the traits you want and those you want to rid yourself of, and in that process, you make a more attractive creature by acquiring positive traits and discharging the ugly ones. You choose the traits, daily. And if you choose them often enough (and hopefully you get rewarded on occasion) the choice becomes a habit.

    The earlier you make the choice, the more likely that trait might become a habit. Maybe it is possible to be a nazi concentration camp survivor with a wealth of great habitual traits. If you're 9 years old and you witness the atrocities of Auschwitz, your mind is forced to make sense of insanity. The 9-year-old likely understands the evil beliefs that created this prison and likely also realizes how the opposites of such must be heaven.

    And the great benefit of this tale is a child acquires habitual character traits of immense value, IF he is wise enough to make the right choices. (OR, the child had great parents that showed them the process of turning good choices into habits.)

    I
I'm going to have to thin about my response to this for a bit, but I will return to it, I promise


DancingDom 74M
22475 posts
7/3/2020 9:30 am

I have my red flags trust issues based on privious situations. Like anyone. I know, I will ask the questions early on. They need to be honest. But in reading this, I can understand why a potential partner may be reluctant to open up. It makes me think, did I cut someone out because I have been too resolute in turning 180 degrees from a potential partner when I first see the red flag?

"One Big Sky Covers Us All Equally"


JohnnyLightning 65M  
9554 posts
7/3/2020 10:30 am

Nice post and pic. I have a little bit of baggage, however it's minimal and doesn't interfere with my life or others.

Howling at the moon and mal ad osteo.


providenceSwitch 47M

7/3/2020 2:01 pm

I agree with this. Feedback loops are tough to break when they become obscured by the energy they create. If everyone could address what is causing it and communicate it would be wonderful. Thank you for the post. I have people in my life I wish I could simply stop the loops with and communciate


aHedonist 51M
7510 posts
7/3/2020 3:43 pm

We all come with baggage. None of us - not a single fucking one of us - make it to our age without having scars and experiences and the history that's required to say "I'm 50". Much less saying I'm 50 and back in the kink dating pool again.

I think though there are 3 broad types of people when it comes to baggage... those who just quit, those who stop and sort out the who/what/why of their life's experiences, and those who just jump straight back in and go again with lessons unlearnt. I am generally speaking the type who stops and figures out the why's; my prior relationships tend to be mostly squared away and each can be seen as an improvement on the last... I'm learning from my mistakes and trying not to repeat them. And I trust my own judgement which is a big thing... as soon as I start getting a consistent bad feeling about something I stop doing it. So often I hear someone say they ignored their own alarm bells.... and I've done it myself a time or two and each time it's bit me on the arse so... listen to them and then decide if they are going off for a good reason or because of prior association with things in the baggage cart.

Ultimately.... I think it's about faith. I have faith that if I look long enough and hard enough I'll find someone that works for me. And they're going to come with baggage because - starting proposition - we all have baggage. But it will be someone who chooses not to let their baggage define them.... or has matching suitcases. Personally I think thats why there are so many short term trainwreck stories in the life... too many people lack the faith to wait.

( I also think this has very little to do with you personally. Your situation is different... you aren't back in the pool for the same reason as most.)


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:25 pm

    Quoting aHedonist:
    We all come with baggage. None of us - not a single fucking one of us - make it to our age without having scars and experiences and the history that's required to say "I'm 50". Much less saying I'm 50 and back in the kink dating pool again.

    I think though there are 3 broad types of people when it comes to baggage... those who just quit, those who stop and sort out the who/what/why of their life's experiences, and those who just jump straight back in and go again with lessons unlearnt. I am generally speaking the type who stops and figures out the why's; my prior relationships tend to be mostly squared away and each can be seen as an improvement on the last... I'm learning from my mistakes and trying not to repeat them. And I trust my own judgement which is a big thing... as soon as I start getting a consistent bad feeling about something I stop doing it. So often I hear someone say they ignored their own alarm bells.... and I've done it myself a time or two and each time it's bit me on the arse so... listen to them and then decide if they are going off for a good reason or because of prior association with things in the baggage cart.

    Ultimately.... I think it's about faith. I have faith that if I look long enough and hard enough I'll find someone that works for me. And they're going to come with baggage because - starting proposition - we all have baggage. But it will be someone who chooses not to let their baggage define them.... or has matching suitcases. Personally I think thats why there are so many short term trainwreck stories in the life... too many people lack the faith to wait.

    ( I also think this has very little to do with you personally. Your situation is different... you aren't back in the pool for the same reason as most.)
Oh I have my own feedback loops. Because EVERYBODY has baggage!
I love this answer for bringing honest points to the conversation


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:40 pm

    Quoting JohnnyLightning:
    Nice post and pic. I have a little bit of baggage, however it's minimal and doesn't interfere with my life or others.
As before, everyone has some baggage, its life


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:41 pm

    Quoting DancingDom:
    I have my red flags trust issues based on privious situations. Like anyone. I know, I will ask the questions early on. They need to be honest. But in reading this, I can understand why a potential partner may be reluctant to open up. It makes me think, did I cut someone out because I have been too resolute in turning 180 degrees from a potential partner when I first see the red flag?
Food for thought eh?


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/3/2020 6:41 pm

    Quoting providenceSwitch:
    I agree with this. Feedback loops are tough to break when they become obscured by the energy they create. If everyone could address what is causing it and communicate it would be wonderful. Thank you for the post. I have people in my life I wish I could simply stop the loops with and communciate
Very welcome


infinitepoetess 54F
3499 posts
7/4/2020 5:57 am

    Quoting  :

You are welcome



Become a member to comment on this blog